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楼主: IntoTheWind
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意淫TFR ( Two-Footed Release )

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11#
发表于 2013-3-20 18:37:02 | 只看该作者
终于有点明白了,大侠讲解深入浅出,威武!~
12#
发表于 2013-3-22 23:16:27 | 只看该作者
搜别的东西古怪地发现了关于harb的transition的一个评论,发出来参考一下:

The cons of the Cross Through (retraction) transition is that it leaves the legs flexed at edge angle neutral, and the hips therefore aft of the hips.  It takes a quick/strong extension of the new outside leg post initiation if the skier is to get that leg long and strong, and him/herself fore balanced by the time the turn's apex is reached.  It's very common for skiers trying to learn this deep retraction Cross Through transition (Harb vintage) to become stuck in the back seat, legs flexed and hips aft all the way through the turn as they anticipate the next deep retraction.  This is why Harb has to stress so heavily the pullback of the feet, to try to overcome that problem, but even pulling the feet back will not solve the issue completely if the outside leg is not extended in unison.

Another problem with Cross Through is that you  somewhat lose that solidly connected with the snow sensation through the transition.  What you get is something called "float", in which the skis become very light as the body cross the skis.   It happens because of the combined affect of down unweighting, rebound, and the virtual bump.  The sensations of the connection that comes from Cross Over and Cross Through are very distinct and noticeable.   Finally, that strong initiation that comes from the tall stance and center/fore balance of the Cross Over transition is lost in the hips aft Cross Through transition.

点评

the outside leg is not extended in unison = 准备,而坚决地入弯  发表于 2013-4-1 08:58
HH说:入弯的时候, 重心超前, C的中心达到平衡, low C开始落后, 靠pull back 拉回来  发表于 2013-4-1 08:57
是一个滑雪教练的网站上的,也卖dvd,号称教授各种transition方法  发表于 2013-3-23 09:32
俄好像明白第二段,float那个……这里用了很多不规范的词汇吧,aft什么的,看着费劲  发表于 2013-3-23 09:30
佩服,虽然我也不明白他在说什么。  发表于 2013-3-23 03:03
13#
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-23 09:52:35 | 只看该作者
checkmoteur 发表于 2013-3-23 00:16
搜别的东西古怪地发现了关于harb的transition的一个评论,发出来参考一下:

The cons of the Cross Throug ...

呵呵,这个很有意思,不过是过去时了。

这篇文章说Cross Though会重心后座,这个是千真万确的。不过回避了Cross Through的好处。
现状就是,Cross Though已经成为主流,换刃Float俨然时尚,Cross Over即将入土。

这个作者是不是还在坚持Cross Over呢?
14#
发表于 2013-3-23 10:05:53 | 只看该作者
IntoTheWind 发表于 2013-3-23 10:52
呵呵,这个很有意思,不过是过去时了。

这篇文章说Cross Though会重心后座,这个是千真万确的。不过回避 ...

从网站上的另外一篇文字看,此人平等对待cross over和cross through,认为这是工具箱里的两样工具,有不同作用,带来不同的乐趣。大侠有兴趣看的话俄再引一段好了:

When it comes to selecting a transition type, sometimes it's just a matter of personal preference, and sometimes not.  Most skiers use only one type of transition, simply because it's the only option they have with the tool box of skills they currently possess.  Skiers with more skills will have more transition options.  They may select a particular transition type because it's the best choice for the job at hand, or they may choose to use a certain transition simply for the fun of it.  Each transition type provides a unique experience, and sometimes we just have a craving for a particular sensation while we ski.  

That said, crossover and cross through each have their individual attributes and compromises.  Let's take a look at them.

Cross though provides a faster transition from turn to turn, because the Center of Mass (CM) takes a more direct path of travel from one side of the skis to the other.  In crossover, the CM takes more of a pendulum shaped path of travel over the skis, rising, then falling.  When you need to end the old turn fast, and make the new turn happen NOW, cross through is a valuable transition.  Linking short radius arc to arc turns down a narrow trail would be a good example of a situation that could present such a need.  In longer radius arc to arc turns on a wide trail, more time is available for allowing the CM to take a longer trip across the skis, so crossover is a feasible option.

Crossover involves an extension of the old inside leg early in the transition, which brings you into a state of fore balance right at the start of the turn.  This is helpful for getting the shovels of the skis to strongly engage at the beginning of the turn, which produces an aggressive turn entry with full control of the front of the skis.  It results in a powerful sensation of control, with the body leading the skis into the turn.     

Cross though is a little different.  With cross through your old inside leg goes through the transition still flexed, so the CM comes into the start of the turn aft.  Fore balance comes later in the turn, via an extension of the new outside leg, once the CM has begun to tip into the new turn.  That can certainly works fine too, but a potential problem can arise if the skier does not extend the outside leg, and goes through the whole turn aft, anticipating the flexion that will be needed in the next cross through transition.  It's a common happening for skiers new to carving, or just learning the cross though transition, and it leaves them in a weak and injury prone stance.   This is why the cross over transition is generally the better vehicle for people learning how to do arc to arc carving.  Crossover promotes the quick adoption of a functional fore state of balance at the beginning of the turn that is confidence inspiring.  

Cross through, in one respect is a bit more energy efficient.   When you extend as your CM is crossing over your skis, you're extending vertically, and in the process working against gravity.  If you wait to begin extending your new outside leg until after your CM has crossed over your skis,  you'll be extending more horizontally.  Extending horizontally means not fighting gravity as much, so it requires a bit less work.   

On the other hand, with cross through the legs never get to enjoy that moment of relaxation that comes from being extended between turns.  At that moment between turns, when the skis are flat on the snow, the forces are low, so the legs are granted a moment to rest.   In cross through, the legs go through the transition deeply flexed, missing their rest opportunity, then are immediately fighting turning forces when they extend.  Many find the rest period provided by the the cross over transition, along with the early fore balance state it creates,  makes it overall a more relaxing way to ski.   

So, as you can see, each transition has it's strong points, as well as it's compromises.  Choosing which to use is really a juggling act of which attribute we want to exploit, and which compromise we're willing to make, for any particular turn.   Learn how to do both crossover and cross through, then experiment with each in various skiing situations, and experience for yourself how their unique characteristics shine or fade in each instance.  Not only will you be learning how best to apply your new transition skills, you'll be enhancing your ability to do so.

中间有几个地方跟楼主大侠所说好像是一个意思。

俄自己当然是不值一提的菜鸟了,如果也有资格谈一点感受的话,则好像转长弯倾向于cross over,短的类似cross through,所以觉得他那个工具箱的比喻也怪有意思的。

点评

长弯,短弯,都是Cross Through。Cross Over没人用了  发表于 2013-3-23 17:40
也不是节选了。这是两篇不同的文字  发表于 2013-3-23 10:18
另外,这个跟TFR关系不大  发表于 2013-3-23 10:15
还是那句话,Cross Over即将入土了  发表于 2013-3-23 10:14
原来被你节选了,呵呵  发表于 2013-3-23 10:13
没说俄能够做到这样啊,只是对纯理论也比较有兴趣,看多了插一嘴,别拍我就好  发表于 2013-3-23 10:10
15#
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-25 08:47:45 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 IntoTheWind 于 2013-3-25 10:25 编辑

对不起,毒性太强,先锁起来。是毒药,又舍不得烧掉

都是YY出来的,俺完全不会TFR
16#
发表于 2013-3-25 16:20:40 | 只看该作者
一定不要烧掉,请教什么是cross through? 是cross under 吗?

点评

晕倒,这实在在复杂了!  发表于 2013-3-26 05:33
http://skichinese.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=6445&pid=93875  发表于 2013-3-25 18:09
17#
发表于 2013-3-31 23:41:30 | 只看该作者
这艺术有点太高啊,大侠要亲临雪场指导。

点评

咱就这么点意淫的本事罢了,不敢瞎指导那.  发表于 2013-4-1 08:09
18#
 楼主| 发表于 2015-12-18 09:33:34 | 只看该作者
翻出这篇来, 因为这篇是内脚引导的一个自洽的理论解释, 好过目前市面上的所有的那些自相矛盾的武侠理论解释. 然并卵.

比如说, 内脚引导就是内脚tipping,从而带动整个身体, 以致雪板转动. 我想起了左脚踩右脚, 右脚踩左脚的著名轻功, 于是不厚道的笑了笑.

喜欢玩概念的, 不如贩卖一下这篇.
19#
 楼主| 发表于 2015-12-18 09:36:06 | 只看该作者
再借机葱白一下瓜教授, 为啥葱白, 高山仰止啊, 不多说了, 都是泪
20#
发表于 2015-12-18 10:19:45 | 只看该作者
同雪网的理论水平,早在上古时代就甩其他地方(比如那什么提啊,那什么野的)N条街了

楼上的终于能认识到教授的伟大,虽然比起我来晚了半个世纪,也还说明孺子可教了,我每天早上起床,都会把签名档里的教授语录大声念三遍,然后才去刷牙

点评

朝闻夕死, 犹未晚也  发表于 2015-12-18 10:49
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